Comments on: Has Ireland’s Rising Tide Benefited Its Poor?

By: Fintan Stack

Fintan Stack — Sat, 23 May 2009 14:55:38 +0000

The poorest you can be as an Irish citizen is being in reciept of the lowest welfare payment of 204 euro per week.Social welfare will also pay 112 euro for rent allowance if in the private rental sector ,but most welfare recipients are provided with council property.Medical and dental cover is also free .
Ireland attracts coniderable welfare tourists from the UK among other countries. So minimum welfare in Ireland surpasses the pay of US infantry troops in Iraq.

By: poor and huddled masses « Publius’ Napkin

poor and huddled masses « Publius’ Napkin — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:54:56 +0000

[...] How does this relative poverty argument play out in the real world? Consider this article, Has Ireland’s Rising Tide Benefited Its Poor? Within, Lane Kenworthy explains how poverty is “on the rise” in Ireland according to [...]

By: Mr Duncan

Mr Duncan — Mon, 26 May 2008 09:16:21 +0000

Having been in the West of Ireland in 1987 and numerous years afterwards, it is quite clear on the surface that living standards have improved considerably—so much so that I miss the fashion-naïve Ireland of 20 years ago.

By: DWAnderson

DWAnderson — Tue, 20 May 2008 14:29:58 +0000

Another thing that has been happening in Ireland is a lot of immigration. The mix of people (including who is in the different categories, deciles, etc.) has been changing significantly over the time series measured by these graphs.

By: Lane Kenworthy

Lane Kenworthy — Tue, 20 May 2008 11:43:27 +0000

Tim:

Yes, the graphs are looking at two very different things. The relative poverty rate in effect captures income growth at the median versus income growth at the bottom of the distribution. If incomes at the median grow faster than those at the bottom, the relative poverty rate will increase. The second chart ignores trends at the median and focuses solely on growth in absolute incomes at the bottom (tenth percentile).

Lane

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 20 May 2008 11:29:02 +0000

I need to correct my question.

How does the value of “50% below the median income” match up against the DECILES? (Sorry about that.) I’m still concerned that the graphs are still comparing two different things.

By: Irish Left Review - Has Ireland’s Rising Tide Benefited Its Poor? « Consider the Evidence

Tue, 20 May 2008 10:21:26 +0000

[...] Has Ireland’s Rising Tide Benefited Its Poor? « Consider the Evidence [...]

By: Donagh

Donagh — Tue, 20 May 2008 10:15:36 +0000

Michael Taft has discussed this topic as well and has looked at the relative verses the absolute measure of poverty in Ireland using recent published data from the Central Statistics Office in Ireland.

What seems to be clear is that Ireland has a lot more poverty than other modern societies, although the all boats must rise argument is disguising that fact, in Ireland at least.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2008/04/post-3.html

By: Lane Kenworthy

Lane Kenworthy — Tue, 20 May 2008 08:48:38 +0000

Sam:

You’re right. This is meant to illustrate a key drawback of a relative poverty measure, not to provide a comprehensive argument against it. I’ll say more in a later post.

Lane

By: Tim

Tim — Mon, 19 May 2008 11:41:49 +0000

How does the value of “50% below the median income” match up against the percentiles? I’m not familiar with the data, but on first exposure it appears you could well be comparing apples to oranges.

By: Sam

Sam — Mon, 19 May 2008 07:46:27 +0000

Just a thought – your post doesn’t *argue* for the use of absolute poverty measures, merely asserting that they are more appropriate. Yet many economists believe that in rich countries a better measure is a relative one. Many rich countries’ governments define their poverty lines in a relative sense, and the UNDP’s HPI-2 index (intended for high-income countries) uses a relative measure, in fact precisely the one in your first chart, for its income dimension.
Rather than assuming those who would look at that chart and wonder what is happening have somehow missed the point and don’t understand what poverty is, perhaps you’d do better to take seriously the reasons many people favour a relative measure, and explain why you think an absolute one is better.